tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post2199561647021014183..comments2023-09-12T11:22:39.209-04:00Comments on From Paradise to Plan B: Rob Bell's "Love Wins"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-56673812537944199992011-05-16T16:55:01.383-04:002011-05-16T16:55:01.383-04:00Karen, thank you for the deeply thoughtful review....Karen, thank you for the deeply thoughtful review. I work for Tyndale House PUblishers and we are releasing a response to Rob Bell's book in July called God Wins. May I send you a copy for review? I was also touched reading about your wonderful son Joey on your blog. I raised five kids and my heart has been touched by your son's life.Maggie Rowehttp://www.tyndale.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-73385733708607682512011-04-21T18:15:57.855-04:002011-04-21T18:15:57.855-04:00Wow Karen. Thank you so much for taking the time t...Wow Karen. Thank you so much for taking the time to write out your review. In so many ways you articulated thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head regarding Rob Bell and the his writings. I am a black and white thinker so I get really impatient with his writing. I love and can understand what you appreciate about his writings. I don't like to question things-it scares me but as I grow I see that asking questions isn't always a bad thing and I hope I get more comfortable with those ask them... As far as the books weaknesses, once again you were able to out fingers to keyboard on the loose thoughts that swirled as I read the book. I find him to be so arrogant and often feel like his books punch me in the face leavng me beat up and discouraged instead of inspiring me to move and be more like Christ. That is why I don't usually like his stuff. I am hard enough on myself. All that to say, thanks. I like reading your perspective and how you communicate your thoughts. You are a very intelligent, compassionate, articulate woman and I love your willingness to share your heart.The Girl Who Lives In My Headhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02398621691561579986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-46444381298782462102011-04-16T15:53:14.076-04:002011-04-16T15:53:14.076-04:00Karen, have you read Heaven is For Real by Todd Bu...Karen, have you read Heaven is For Real by Todd Burpo? I was wondering about your thoughts, I just read it and was so encouraged!Steve and Jannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03799112318844308632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-46152968342852624172011-04-07T04:55:03.240-04:002011-04-07T04:55:03.240-04:00Haven't read the book Karen but remember this ...Haven't read the book Karen but remember this about grace!<br />From a dear friend.<br />Lamentations 3<br /><br /> 1 I am the man who has seen affliction<br /> by the rod of the Lord’s wrath.<br />2 He has driven me away and made me walk<br /> in darkness rather than light;<br />3 indeed, he has turned his hand against me<br /> again and again, all day long.<br />4 He has made my skin and my flesh grow old<br /> and has broken my bones.<br />5 He has besieged me and surrounded me<br /> with bitterness and hardship.<br />6 He has made me dwell in darkness<br /> like those long dead.<br />7 He has walled me in so I cannot escape;<br /> he has weighed me down with chains.<br />8 Even when I call out or cry for help,<br /> he shuts out my prayer.<br />9 He has barred my way with blocks of stone;<br /> he has made my paths crooked.<br />10 Like a bear lying in wait,<br /> like a lion in hiding,<br />11 he dragged me from the path and mangled me<br /> and left me without help.<br />12 He drew his bow<br /> and made me the target for his arrows.<br />13 He pierced my heart<br /> with arrows from his quiver.<br />14 I became the laughingstock of all my people;<br /> they mock me in song all day long.<br />15 He has filled me with bitter herbs<br /> and given me gall to drink.<br />16 He has broken my teeth with gravel;<br /> he has trampled me in the dust.<br />17 I have been deprived of peace;<br /> I have forgotten what prosperity is.<br />18 So I say, “My splendor is gone<br /> and all that I had hoped from the LORD.”<br />19 I remember my affliction and my wandering,<br /> the bitterness and the gall.<br />20 I well remember them,<br /> and my soul is downcast within me.<br />21 Yet this I call to mind<br /> and therefore I have hope:<br />22 Because of the Lord's great love we are not consumed,<br /> for his compassions never fail.<br />23 They are new every morning;<br /> great is your faithfulness.<br />24 I say to myself, “The LORD is my portion;<br /> therefore I will wait for him.”<br />25 The LORD is good to those whose hope is in him,<br /> to the one who seeks him;<br />26 it is good to wait quietly<br /> for the salvation of the LORD.<br />27 It is good for a man to bear the yoke while he is young.<br />28 Let him sit alone in silence,<br /> for the LORD has laid it on him.<br />29 Let him bury his face in the dust—there may yet be hope.<br />30 Let him offer his cheek to one who would strike him,<br /> and let him be filled with disgrace.<br />31 For no one is cast off<br /> by the Lord forever.<br />32 Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,<br /> so great is his unfailing love.<br />33 For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone. <br /><br />And another beautiful quote in my Bible: Eph, 17-18-19<br />18 And may you have the power to understand, as all God’s people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. 19 May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully. Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God.<br /><br />No, don't agree with all of Rob Bell(especially about everyone going to Heaven)but would like to read his book.<br />I on the other hand thank God for those called to evangelize! <br />I do think though He is on to something about God's love just as Martin Luther was on to something about God's grace. Rob is stretching our sacred cow and we immediately want him silenced. But as I said, I haven't read the book. <br /><br />I think the key comes from Lamentations 3:<br />25 The LORD is good to those whose hope is in him,<br /> to the one who seeks him;<br />26 it is good to wait quietly<br /> for the salvation of the LORD.<br />GaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-84905503668310958922011-03-31T01:33:50.290-04:002011-03-31T01:33:50.290-04:00I apologize for nor reading the whole blog before ...I apologize for nor reading the whole blog before posting. I'm sorry for your loss. I truly believe that I can't understand the pain of people who have lost a child. May God's grace and peace abound in your family.<br /><br />Just one more comment. Even I have not experienced a loss. The last four years have been the most painful in my life and one of the authors that has helped me the most is Henry Nouwen. Specially "Turn My Mourning into Dancing". His books are simple but have helped me to heal. Maybe they won't mean much to you, but wanted to share a blessing.<br /><br />Thanks for your blog._klvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-29218801720023116662011-03-31T01:17:55.110-04:002011-03-31T01:17:55.110-04:00Your review really honest. I like that. And that&#...Your review really honest. I like that. And that's why I felt like saying something about it. I think you are the type of person that actually engages in conversation, not arguments.<br /><br />I have not finished the book, but have been following the interviews and articles for a while. I agree with you when you say that Bell has not offered the final answer to the questions he raises, and I wonder if we'll live to have them answered. They are questions that have been open for thousands of years! But like you said, maybe our part is in the struggle to find the answers as much as it was in every character of the scripture to push the truth a little further since we all belong to a bigger story.<br /><br />Regarding the weaknesses of the book, I'd say:<br /><br />1. You are right, Randy Alcorn explains a lot of Heaven in his book but even he has some holes that he admits and recommends looking for George E. Ladd's books. Maybe Surprised by Hope by N.T. Wright would give you more answers on the "tecnical" aspects of heaven. I believe Bell didn't engage in that because the main purpose of the book is the implications here and now more than the details of the then and there.<br /><br />3. I have not done research on statistics, but I've been a christian for 28 years now and my experience is that more than 90% of the time, the churches I've met (and I have a lot of relatives as pastors and denominational leaders) are more interested in their growth and administration than in social justice.<br /><br />4. I haven't got to that part yet in the book. If you have not seen the "tomato" volume of nooma, maybe you should. You'll probably understand what he means by death as a process. You can also read Gene Edwards "The Divine Romance". The bible makes it clear that we all need to participate in Christ's death to be able to participate in his resurrection. You mentioned that someone died for you, that gives you a perspective that maybe not all of us have, but he is talking from the other side, seeing other people as worth dying for. Ie., "I won't leave this room in the middle of the argument, because my partner is worth dying for" or "I won't give up on my teenagers because they are worth dying for". When you give more of yourself for the sake of others, sometimes feels like dying. You see the cycle in nature, no tree is forever green, winter looks like death. Life needs that process of rejuvenation. <br /><br />5. As for Rob's character, I'd agree with you if financial stability and education was everything we needed to be happy. We all have our gifts and lacks, some have worked more on them than others. Rob does not seem to me the type of person that tells his story seeking for commiseration. I think there is a lot of pain we don't know. I wish too I had half of the gifts he has, but then I wonder if I really don't have mine and I'm just wasting them. I think that eventually somebody will write his biography (if he does not do it himself), then we will know. He's changed church's history, and that does not happen sitting in a couch just thinking what your next controversial book will be. <br /><br />Please don't take anything in a personal level. I liked your post, I hope I'm just adding to the conversation.<br /><br />Grace and peace._klvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-15273133863354343102011-03-31T00:57:15.144-04:002011-03-31T00:57:15.144-04:00Karen, I love and appreciate you for so many reaso...Karen, I love and appreciate you for so many reasons!<br />Here are a few of them.<br />1.Your commpassion<br />2.The suffering you've experienced and now put into words for all of us. You'll never know how much this has meant to me. You speak for many.<br />3.Your loving, self sacrificial, teaching,sharing and building up of our families.<br />4.For showing up. over and over.<br />5.That what you love most is God's grace and mercy.<br />6.Your honesty.<br />7. Your transparency <br />8. And you're so darn smart.<br />Love you! Becky L.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-19831849737283655442011-03-30T17:43:41.227-04:002011-03-30T17:43:41.227-04:00I lOVE your wise and insightful comments here Kare...I lOVE your wise and insightful comments here Karen! I think you should email them to FOX, CNN, et al and it might help the network journalists de-construct his book and theology for all of us. Perhaps even Rob himself would be open to your critique. I especially loved your discussion of the book's weaknesses in points 4 and 5. That type of ivory tower, abstract "intellectual" theology always bugs me. Jesus clearly demonstrates His passionate heart and soon coming Kingdom of God in His love and compassion for others in His miraculous healings and His grief and tears in raising the dead!Steve and Jannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03799112318844308632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-19113521318783749672011-03-30T15:50:54.390-04:002011-03-30T15:50:54.390-04:00Karen my dear, your post is absolutely amazing. I...Karen my dear, your post is absolutely amazing. I have not read it and won't for now but loved hearing you explain things. You should be the writer, you are so gifted that way and with all the other wonderful things about you it makes perfect sense to be blessed enough to have you as a friend. Been VERY busy but things are going well. xoxoxo SharonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-8815484013740119982011-03-30T14:58:12.866-04:002011-03-30T14:58:12.866-04:00Like what Karen G said, I loved reading your well-...Like what Karen G said, I loved reading your well-thought-out, well-structured and clear comments, both pro & con. <br /><br />We have most of Rob's DVD (you got us started :) but I have not read any of his books (due to lack of time). It would be interesting to read it someday, but for now I enjoy reading the discussions going on abt it on Facebook and Twitter :) I like most of his teachings but there were times when I "felt" some of it were not right. Of course "feelings or intuitions" are not reliable, but it's a good "headsup" for me in many circumstances. It's a check, sort of a discernment.... anyways ...<br /><br />By the way, can I tweet a link to this on Twitter and will cc Rob Bell? who knows, he might reply :)Liza on Mauihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03051821265972125935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-15955090849922809172011-03-30T07:50:08.090-04:002011-03-30T07:50:08.090-04:00"the firefighter has to die to save someone e..."the firefighter has to die to save someone else's life."?<br /><br />You gotta be kidding me? I'm with Karen G; I appreciate hearing what you had to say about the book. <br /><br />MichDaisyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07074990352248493598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-85270370736517999342011-03-29T23:33:04.023-04:002011-03-29T23:33:04.023-04:00Great post! Thank you for your thoughtful, non-kn...Great post! Thank you for your thoughtful, non-knee-jerk observations. I'm still reading the book and wrestling with his treatment (and my understanding) of this all-important topic. Also planning on several interesting conversations with Dan, Dan and Dean over Friday morning breakfasts. (Yes, the tradition lives on.)Paul Reissernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-46946605121212933232011-03-29T15:19:53.856-04:002011-03-29T15:19:53.856-04:00Exactly what Karen said :), but I might read it.Exactly what Karen said :), but I might read it.Beckypdjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06266740083686605381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636055.post-32686516892495230122011-03-29T14:21:08.092-04:002011-03-29T14:21:08.092-04:00Thank you for writing this. I haven't read the...Thank you for writing this. I haven't read the book, and - to be honest - chances are, I won't, but I loved reading your well-thought-out, well-structured and clear comments, both pro & con. Your voice is strong, good, and needed in this world! I've missed it. xoxoxoGbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08895779471612397202noreply@blogger.com